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Interview with Patsie Webb, conducted at St Aldate's Police Station, Oxford
10 April 2018, 3.19 p.m.
In attendance, DC V. Everett, DC E. Somer, Mrs D. Webb, J. Beck (solicitor), Mrs M. Chandler (designated Appropriate Adult)
ES: For the purposes of the tape, Patsie is accompanied by her mother, her lawyer, Mr Beck, and Mrs Monica Chandler, in the capacity of Appropriate Adult.DW: It is unbelievable that you people have dragged us back in here. Patsie has already told you a hundred times that she had nothing to do with what happened to Sasha Blake, and even your own bloody scientists admitted the fingerprints on that bag weren't hers. I'm going to be making an official complaint `“ do you hear me, an official complaint. This is harassment, it's bullying `“ES: I can assure you that's not the case, Mrs Webb. And we're not here to talk about Sasha. Not this time. Now, Patsie, do you remember what you were doing on April 1st?PW: What the `“?DW: April 1st? That was the Monday before last, right? I can answer that. She was at home, in bed. She'd come down with that winter vomiting thing.ES: Is that right, Patsie? Were you sick that day?PW: [shrugs then nods]ES: We've checked with Summertown High and you were definitely logged as off sick that day. Just like Isabel. And Leah.DW: The whole school had it `“ what are you getting at?ES: What time do you leave for work in the morning, Mrs Webb?DW: 7.45. 8.00 at the latest. Why?ES: So you can't actually be sure where Patsie was that day, can you? Not 100 per cent. Unless your boyfriend was there, perhaps?DW: [hesitates]
No, actually he wasn't `“ not until later on `“ES: Did you talk to Patsie on her mobile during that day?DW: [pause]
I assumed she'd be asleep. She'd been up all night being sick. I could hear her retching in the bathroom but she wouldn't let me in.VE: You didn't try the landline?DW: No. Like I said, she was ill `“ she was asleep. I didn't want to wake her. When I got back at 6.30 she was watching TV wrapped up in her duvet.ES: That doesn't mean she'd been there all day, though, does it, Patsie?PW: You're just trying to make me think you know something, but you don't. Because there isn't anything to know.JB: You're on thin ice here, Officer. If you have reasonable grounds for suspicion that an offence has been committed you should question my client under caution. As you well know.ES: In that case, Patsie Belinda Webb, I am arresting you on suspicion of false imprisonment and assault occasioning Actual Bodily Harm on April 1st 2018. You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence. So, Patsie, when DI Fawley spoke to Isabel on April 4th she said she didn't know anyone called Faith Appleford. But you do, don't you, all of you. You know her sister. Nadine.PW: Nadine's in our year. But I don't know her.ES: What happened to Faith `“ it was a lot like what happened to Sasha. So much so that we were convinced it had to be the same perpetrator. Faith was abducted and tied up and taken to a shed on the Marston Ferry Road allotments. The poor girl was completely terrorized `“ she thought she was going to be killed `“ they dragged down her underwear `“MC: Look, is this really necessary?ES: And the attacker was really clever. They put a plastic bag over her head so she couldn't see. They kept quiet the whole time so she couldn't hear anything that might identify them. The only clue we had was the fact that Faith was abducted in some sort of van. And even though we searched high and low we just couldn't find it. And then we thought perhaps it wasn't a van after all `“ perhaps it was an SUV, or even an old-fashioned estate car.VE: And then you told us about Graeme Scott, didn't you, Patsie? About how he'd been taking an unhealthy interest in Sasha. And then we found out he drives a Morris Traveller and we wondered `“ perhaps he was the man we were looking for? Perhaps he attacked both Sasha and Faith?DW: Like I said before, you should be grateful to my daughter, not treating her like some sort of bloody criminal.ES: But then forensics told us that the bag that was used on Faith carried DNA from both her mother and her sister. Frankly, at that point, we didn't know what to think. We couldn't see how Graeme Scott could possibly have got hold of that bag. In fact, there was only one person it could have been: Nadine herself.VE: But even that didn't add up. Because we knew she couldn't have been driving that van. She's only fifteen `“ I mean, that wouldn't have been legal, would it?PW: [silence]ES: And then we thought `“ hang on, just because it isn't legal, doesn't mean it didn't happen. After all, someone can know how to drive even if they don't have a licence.PW: [shifts in her chair but doesn't say anything]ES: We even tested it out `“ our colleague DC Asante did a dry run to see if there was enough time for Nadine to attack her sister and still be in school by 11.15. And you know, it is actually possible. Though she'd need to have a really good connection on the buses to Blackbird Leys `“PW: [looks up, then down again]ES: Oh, didn't I say? We think the van involved belongs to someone who lives in Blackbird Leys. In fact, we don't think, we know. Because he came in this morning and gave us a statement. Ashley told us all about it, Patsie. There's no point lying any more.PW: [silence]DW: Patsie? Is this true?PW: Look, it was just a joke, OK? An April Fool. I don't know why everyone's going so fucking batshit about it `“ES: You don't know? You're seriously telling us you don't understand why the police would take something like that seriously?PW: [sulkily]
We didn't do anything to her.VE: Yes, you did. You pulled out her hair. That's what makes it Actual Bodily Harm. And you did untold psychological damage. Faith thought she was going to be killed `“ raped `“PW: How can she be raped? She's not even a fucking girl `“DW: Patsie `“ES: So you are admitting to involvement in the abduction of Faith Appleford on the morning of April 1st 2018?PW: For fuck's sake, it wasn't abduction, it was a joke.VE: Just now you said `we' didn't do anything. Who else was with you?PW: Iz. And Leah. They met me at the allotments.ES: So none of you were really ill at all. You just told your parents you were.PW: [silence]VE: And you drove Ashley Brotherton's van. Your boyfriend's van.DW: What boyfriend? Since when have you had a boyfriend?PW: [to her mother]
Since you started spending all day every day with that creep Lee and stopped giving a toss about me, that's when.ES: Ashley told us he had no idea that you were going to borrow it.PW: Nah, well, I wasn't going to actually tell him, was I. He'd have hidden the bloody keys. He gave me all sorts of shit about it afterwards.ES: So you planned it. You knew about the funeral and you planned the whole thing.PW: Are you thick or something? It was an April Fool. It had to be that day.VE: Ashley wanted to go to the police as soon as he found out, but you told him you'd tell us he had sex with you even though you're underage. He was frightened he might lose his job `“PW: Yeah, well, he's not that bright.ES: Why did you pick on Faith, Patsie? Why her, in particular?PW: [shrugs]
Dunno.ES: I think you know very well. You see, when we first started investigating what happened to Faith, we assumed it must have been a hate crime. We thought her attacker must have known her secret and picked on her because of it. But however hard we tried we couldn't find anyone who actually knew about it. No one outside her immediate family had any idea.PW: [silence]ES: But that's the whole point, isn't it, Patsie? Nadine knew. And she told you.DW: You can't prove any of that.ES: Patsie just proved it herself. She said Faith `isn't even a girl'. There's only one way she could know that.PW: Like I said `“ it was an April Fool `“VE: Why did Nadine tell you about her sister, Patsie? Because she wanted to fit in? Because she wanted you to like her?PW: We were just having a laugh, all right? We said she could be our friend if she told us a secret. Something no one else knew.DW: Oh my God `“ES: But you had no intention of being her friend, did you? You were just using her. You took what she told you and used it to betray her. In the most vicious, unkind way imaginable.PW: Stupid bitch was going apeshit. About her bloody sister and how she'd never have told us if she'd known. When we heard sirens we thought she'd called the fucking police.VE: What about the carrier bag? Where did you get that?PW: Iz nicked it off her. Dozy cow didn't even notice.ES: So what about Sasha?PW: I told you, that was nothing to do with us.VE: Even though the details are almost exactly the same? The plastic bag? The cable ties? You did that deliberately, didn't you `“ so the police would think there was some sort of sexual predator on the loose `“JB: If I might say so, Officer, everything you've just said makes an extremely compelling case for Nadine Appleford as the killer of Sasha Blake. She knew exactly what had happened to Faith and was therefore in an ideal position to carry out a perfect copycat crime. She had the means, and she had an extremely powerful motive: revenge. She wanted to incriminate Patsie and the other girls, and get her own back on those who had rejected her and humiliated her sister.PW: Yeah `“ exactly. That's exactly what must of happened `“VE: So you're saying Nadine planned it `“ that she deliberately set out to kill Sasha in a carbon-copy of what had happened to Faith, just to frame Patsie and the others?JB: Can you prove she didn't?ES: So why didn't she tell us Patsie and the others had assaulted Faith right at the start? Why wait all this time on the off-chance we'd work it out for ourselves?JB: You'll have to ask her about that, Officer. Who knows what was going on in her head. She's clearly extremely disturbed.PW: Right `“ Nadine's fucking weird `“DW: Patsie, please `“JB: Does Nadine have an alibi, for example? Because my client does. As well you know. Sasha, Patsie and Isabel were all on that bus together, and you have a ticket that proves it.ES: It's a great theory, Mr Beck. There's just one problem with it. How on earth could Nadine have known where Sasha would be that night? That precise place, that precise time `“ how could she possibly have found that out?PW: That's easy. Because she bloody spied on us, that's how.* * *