I see what Paul’s saying to this extent…end with current epilogue (which can become a deleted scene) it ends with oh, the thing continues. End with Mort saying I have plans, we get a sense that it’s escalating into maybe a world-wide thing, which is very cool. I’m still on the fence…
Blake
• • •
I’m fine with using the epilogue as an alternate ending or extra scene, and omitting it from the main manuscript. Or using at as Chapter 1 of DRACULAS 2. I’m not nearly as interested in a government dracula testing lab as I am a werewolf outbreak. New genre, new toys, new monsters.
My son just finished reading the book. Liked it. Was pissed Clay died.
I’m also pissed Clay died. That’s 3 for 3 in the Konrath house for at least making it more ambiguous.
Stacie and Randall had poetic death scenes that were emotional.
Adam’s was heroic. Jenny’s was the end of Night of the Living Dead, which had been my intention when thinking up this scenario.
Clay’s death is like a bad joke, without the laughter. He’s hands down the favorite character. While the other deaths make sense, this one seems cruel. Even in a horror book.
He’s your creation, Paul. If you want him to die, we won’t fight you on it.
But I’m directing the hate mail I get to you. And in talking to my wife and son, I’m gonna get hate mail.
I think we could head off that hate mail if he grabs Alice, the building explodes, and his last thought is, “Oh, shit.” Then there’s always the possibility he comes back.
Joe
• • •
By the way, Paul, it’s your own damn fault for writing a great, likable character.
Joe
• • •
I think he’s gotta die. It brings a certain closure.
In DEEP AS THE MARROW I had a character named Poppy who I had to kill because her arc demanded it. I got tons of angry mail. But you know what? People remember that book because Poppy died. If I’d found a way to let her live, it might have been, Meh.
Look, I can take out the fusing with Alice scene and leave it a little ambiguous, leave a little hope. If we do a sequel, and we want to bring him back, we can find a way.
Paul
• • •
I vote for leaving it ambiguous.
Joe
• • •
I vote strongly against making it ambiguous. If Clay is on the roof when the hospital explodes, he’s dead. We’ve gotta play fair. Suggesting that we might offer some sort of implausible explanation in the sequel for how he survived isn’t going to placate readers.
I also vote to get rid of the epilogue, which makes the book feel like we’re trying to set up two different sequels.
Jeff
• • •
Clay isn’t on the roof. He’s down a few floors.
Here’s the thing, guys. We’re releasing this as an ebook, and before it goes live 200 people are going to review it.
I love nihilistic endings. I thought the end to The Mist was one of the greatest endings in modern horror films.
Word of mouth killed The Mist in its first week, and it tanked at the box office.
Do we want to have a big ebook launch with an average two and a half star rating?
This isn’t like a paperback, where the majority of customers won’t see the reviews. Every potential customer will see the reviews and the star rating on the same Amazon page they download the ebook. Bad reviews will kill sales.
Am I saying compromise artistic integrity and pander to the audience? No.
Am I saying allow a character that readers have grown fond of a chance to survive? Yes.
We’re not making some sort of social commentary or statement with this ebook. It’s just supposed to be gory fun. But it loses some of the fun factor if we annihilate 90% of the cast.
Lanz, dead.
Benny, dead.
Randall, dead.
Oasis, dead.
Jenny, dead.
Adam, dead,
Stacie, dead.
Clay, dead.
Then secondary characters like Winslow, Brittany, Grammy Ann, and Herrick, all dead.
Mort and Shanna are the only POV characters that survive, and one is the main villain.
This isn’t nearly are serious as my other horror novels, but more of the heroes survive in those.
I think we should at least allow for the possibility that Clay lives. This is a classic case of Pascal’s Wager. We have a lot to lose, but everything to gain. What does it hurt to give Clay an ambiguous fate?
And with that, I rest my case. But let the record show that the readers—angry at the ending—will read through our emails and see that Paul and Jeff were the ones who pushed for Clay’s death.
Joe
• • •
“What does it hurt to give Clay an ambiguous fate?”
Ask Brian Keene how much hate mail he got over the ending of THE RISING!
I’m not necessarily voting in favor of Clay dying…if there’s a believable way he can survive the hospital blowing up, I’m all for it. I’m voting against the idea of leaving it up in the air. I’d feel much more cheated as a reader not knowing for sure what happened to him than having him die in the explosion.
Jeff
• • •
Then in the last scene, I vote for Clay crawling out of the rubble.
We need a scene where readers can cheer. Instead we bring in a government conspiracy completely out of left field that isn’t explained or resolved, several depressing deaths, and an open-ended “villain wins” finale.
The more I think about it, the more I think the last fifteen pages kill the fun we had build up for the previous 250 pages.
Maybe it’s my insecurity showing, but now I’m thinking we eliminate Driscoll and her team, and have Shanna find Clay still alive.
I’ve got a wild idea that I’m going to throw out there, for you guys to consider. You know how Hollywood has test screenings? What if I did a happy ending for Clay and Shanna, we gave both endings to the reviewers, and let them pick their favorite? Then we use that one for the book, make the other one an alternate ending, and I don’t have a nervous breakdown.
I like the outcome where I don’t have a nervous breakdown. I’ve written SEVEN novels this year. I’m so close to burning out that I need to mainline caffeine.
Before you tell me no, I think we all need to read the book straight through, and do our final edits. We mention Aliens and so many other cool action movies in this book, and they all had endings where the audience smiles big and pumps their hands in the air. We’re ending Draculas with a nihilistic whimper, and I really think it’s gonna hurt us. This book was too much fun to end with such a downer…
Joe
• • •
Okay, I feel better now. I did a different ending which I think still offers a lot of sequel potential, but will make readers say “Hell yeah!” when they finish. As Mickey Spillane said, “A good beginning makes them buy the book. A good ending makes them buy the next book.”
It’s labeled Alternate Ending in the Dropbox. We can debate whether we use it, or a variation of it, for the final manuscript. If we don’t use it, at least it exists, and we can stick it in the extras.
Wife and son loved it, BTW.
Joe
September 24, 2010
I agree that the ending is the final taste a book leaves in the reader’s mouth. If it’s sour, it can taint all the flavors that came before. (Wow, look at me - maintaining a metaphor.)
I can buy this ending. Since peds is on the 2nd floor, I can buy Clay getting blown out and somehow surviving.
But he’d never hear Shanna through an intact thermopane window. Also, it wasn’t clear she got free of the trailer.
I did a couple of minor fixes in bold face that resolve those.