Rzhev, tormented by occupation, brutality, hunger, bombardment and bombing, a city the opposing armies battled for relentlessly, saw some of the bloodiest fighting in the war. The tragedy of Rzhev confronted us starkly when we re-entered it in 1943.
You talked one time about the changing ‘soul’ of the war.
When you say ‘soul’, you immediately hint at something elusive, and what I was referring to was the deep, spiritual aspect of war as it revealed itself at different stages. Rzhev, standing at a junction of railways and major highways, at a crossroads in the war and in people’s destinies, illustrated that dramatically. The dedication of the army and the whole nation at that point, when it was not yet being rewarded with victory, was especially eloquent testimony to the indomitable spirit of that tragic time.
The year 1943 was a turning point in the war. Our army was fighting its way to the west, and coming across everything that the war had swallowed up during the period of defeats: our prisoners, the occupation. We were clearly not prepared for what we found. During that time of retreat, our army had left an unarmed and defenceless population to the mercy of the enemy. We should have been the ones with the sense of guilt, but instead, as we liberated those lands, the returning liberators came not with any consciousness of their guilt towards the population but as if to judge them. As if people who had lived perhaps two, perhaps three years under German occupation had not needed somehow to feed themselves, to keep their children from starving to death, and had therefore no option but to do a certain amount of work, perhaps performing compulsory labour with German assault rifles pointing at them, clearing the roads of snow, for example. Yet in spite of that, it seemed that everyone was guilty of something, singled out for something of that kind, and under suspicion.
Our military doctrine disregarded the concept of the prisoner of war. No matter how hopeless your situation might have been, to be taken prisoner was officially considered treasonable, even if a doomed million-strong army had fought to the last after being surrounded. War has not only heroes but also martyrs, and these were our prisoners of war. Our people felt sorry for them. They could see how brutally the Germans treated them, how they perished in captivity. When prisoners were being herded back behind enemy lines, women would take bread or a potato from their children and risk their lives (because the Germans would open fire on them) to go out to the road and try to pass something to eat to the prisoners.
Our soldiers and commanders, liberated from captivity, were subjected to the humiliation of blatant distrust and abuse and found themselves once more behind barbed wire. I have heard many of them say they found that worse than German captivity, because there their tormentors were at least the enemy. And who can claim this did not contribute to so many supposedly ‘displaced persons’ being Soviet soldiers who had not committed any crimes towards their homeland, but feared persecution if they returned.
The mistrust and inhuman treatment of those who had suffered the torments of captivity and living under German occupation damaged not only those victims, but undermined and warped people’s innate sense of justice and compassion. The pressure was so great that it suppressed natural morality and could come to be regarded as something self-evident: ‘Well, I wasn’t behind enemy lines, so I am pure; but you were, so you are tainted.’ People began to be divided into the pure and the impure.
I wrote and spoke out about this issue many years ago, but only recently read in a newspaper that in 1954, when Marshal Zhukov became minister of defence, he set up and chaired a special commission that proposed a change in the law, so that there would be no discrimination against former prisoners of war, general compensation, and removal from the personal questionnaire ex-soldiers had to fill in of the question asking if they had been a prisoner. The Party leaders of the USSR, with Khrushchev at their head, rejected the proposal. Right up until the fiftieth anniversary of the end of the war, the stigma of people who had suffered in this way was, criminally, retained.
How many years have passed, and still there is more to be said about the war…
You are right. It is difficult to convey the truth about the war, and anyone who succeeds is fortunate. How many decades have passed and now here we are, we and our descendants, alive at the same time, and everyone’s life is fragile and finite. But never has a whole succession of generations warned so directly, with such awareness, ‘We are about to pass on…’ These are the people who fought in the war and, facing their inevitable end, each of them feels all the more acutely that they are part of a great epic. Anyone who aspires to tell the tale of what they experienced is conscious that, if it is not done now, then when will it be? There is an extreme anxiety to do what has to be done while there is still time, not to leave this life with things unsaid. But it is not easy to convey the truth about the war.
Why should that be so?
What I mean is the hard-won truth of a work of literature. A good intention to write the truth is no guarantee that it will be achieved. Truth about character, the portrait of a period, of its events, is broader, more significant and more all-encompassing than the facts alone. Truth calls for hard work involving the soul and talent. Sometimes it needs to come through inspiration, because it is an act of grace. So, it is fortunate if you are able to comprehend, assimilate and give that artistic expression. Artistic truth cannot be dependent on the current climate or expedient, and its influence comes from everything that goes into it: the nobility and pain, talent, intelligence, courage, and the limpid and mournful poetry of life. From its mistakes, too. That is when the truth can speak to us readers, enlighten and elevate us. And it develops the talent of the writer, too – it is creatively contagious, and that is why all through your life you pursue the bluebird.
Just now, rereading your conversation with Zhukov, I was struck by his words, ‘I trust your conscience as a writer.’ I was brought up short: not ‘your account as an eyewitness’, not ‘you as a researcher of the archives’, but ‘your conscience as a writer’. That chimes with what you say about getting to a truth that is more profound than a conscientious, direct relation of the facts: to an artistic truth.
I think what he most likely meant was the moral responsibility of the person writing.
He had already suffered during his years in disfavour from all sorts of writers; what would have made him think he could trust the profession as such? No, he was referring to your own, personal talent. The military leader who led us to victory was the first to recognize your secret, your gift of trustworthiness.
What sort of a gift is that? It’s more of a burden.
Because you carry it as a responsibility. But Berlin, May 1945 is not only a documentary account of the death and identification of Hitler. Look at the subtle brushstrokes and details which, perhaps, nobody else would have spotted, with which you paint the portrait of those days? Modern historians draw on you to reconstruct them.
And your Rzhev, a cycle of novellas and stories giving a unique evocation of the people’s war! Everything seems to be happening right here and now, before our eyes, even though I had not been born at that time.