The interviewer laughed.
And Bill smiled.
And then tell us about the Kop, said the interviewer. Was it there before you came?
Oh yes.
The singing and everything else?
Yes, the noise was there. Yeah. Not the singing. The singing came later. The singing came along with the Beatles. And your Gerry Marsden’s You’ll Never Walk Alone. And Ee-Aye-Addio. That all came around the time we were beginning to move in sixty-four, sixty-five. And we win the Cup for the first time …
Is it worth a goal start? Or two-goal start? Because I mean, it must have been an intimidating place for other teams, Anfield?
No, they make a noise. But they are very fair. If you come here and play the game. Play football. They’ll applaud you. If you come here with other intentions, it’s a different story. They can be hard and all. But they are very fair. And they’re very noisy, of course. There’s a big band of them. And I would think that they are possibly the funniest crowd, you know? The humour of them. I mean, they can pick up things right away. I mean, I remember Leeds United coming here. And Sprake, in goal, was going to roll a ball out, you see? So he changed his mind, so he threw it into the net, you see? And inside of two minutes, they were singing Careless Hands. It’s unbelievable. Bloody unbelievable. Yeah. That happened. That’s absolutely true. Yeah …
Why did they make you almost into a god? Because I mean, you were their man, weren’t you?
Well, we were successful. And we’d won the Cup for the first time. I think that was a big thing, you know? That made them proud. I mean, the fact that they hadn’t won it. And they were speaking about hiding, you know? Kind of hiding with big coats on, so nobody would see them. That was one of the things, I think. Having won the Cup, and being successful, and going into Europe. And I was a people’s man, you understand? I’m a socialist.
Still?
Bill nodded. Bill nodded again. And Bill said, Yes, yes. But that doesn’t say that I’ve got very much time for politicians. Including socialist politicians. They’ve a difficult job. But I mean, they make a terrible mess of it. So that really and truly a man is his own politics. Your politics, you are born with. And so was I born with mine.
That’s shades of Rabbie Burns in that …
Yes. Exactly. Yes. Burns was a clever man. When he wrote To a Mouse, he was in the field, with his brother Gilbert. Ploughing. And he said to Gilbert, I need to go home. And when he went home, and Gilbert come home at night, he had written To a Mouse. The whole lot.
Yeah, said the interviewer. Smashing …
And Bill said, Yep.
Why, asked the interviewer, just lastly, Bill, in the book, there’s this bit, which has attracted all the attention, where you say you are not welcome at Liverpool …
Yeah.
I mean, surely that isn’t true?
Bill swallowed. And Bill said, I’ve written a book about people. Praising people. Talking about people. Ninety-nine per cent talking and praising people. One per cent a little bit of criticism. And people pick out the one per cent. And if anybody is annoyed at me saying that, then that appals me. Because it’s a fact. It’s fair comment. And if anybody writes a book. About sport or anything. And it’s ninety-nine per cent OK. Surely the one per cent is nothing, is it? You wouldn’t win an election if you only got one per cent …
No, said the interviewer. But you see, what did strike me as odd in the book, you say that you went to Bruges with Liverpool …
Yeah.
After you stopped being manager …
Yeah.
And they wouldn’t let you stay in the same hotel. Now that seems awful to me. That the club would say, Go to another hotel. We don’t want you …
Well, I went at the invitation of Radio City. And they must have got permission from the club for me to go on the plane. But I was in a different hotel, yeah. Oh yes.
Well, I would have thought Bill Shankly could walk into Anfield every day of the week, all the time, for what you have done?
Bill nodded. And Bill said, Oh, I could. For the home games, yeah. I could, yeah. But not the away games. I mean, I used to get tickets from Burnley. For the game at Burnley. I mean, maybe when I went to the home game, they might have said, Do you want a couple of tickets for the game next week? But no. No. It’s mentioned a bit because it happened to me. You understand?
Yeah.
It happened to me.
Yes.
My life was spent there. Fighting to get them somewhere –
Bill stopped speaking. Bill stopped talking. And Bill looked away again. No cars passing, no dogs barking. Nothing. Nothing but silence. In the sunshine and in the street. Just the silence.
Would you like to go back?
No.
Into management?
Bill shook his head. And Bill said, No, no. I’d like to have some involvement. About games. And to help people.
Two last questions, I suppose: would you go through it all again? And is the football now as good as when you started kicking the ball around in Ayrshire?
Oh, I wouldn’t like to go through the whole thing again. But having gone through it, I would like to be involved in some way. Because I think that I can do the game a lot of good. I mean, my psychology. My knowledge of the game. My knowledge of people. And I think it would be a terrible pity for that to be wasted …
And is the game today –
Because I’m still as lucid as I was. Yeah, yeah …
That’s great, said the interviewer. Thank you, Bill. Thank you very much. That was great, Bill.
Bill nodded. Bill stuck out his hand. And Bill said, OK, then. If you’re sure you’ve got everything you need …
More than enough, said the interviewer. More than enough. But thank you again, Bill. Thank you.
Bill smiled. And Bill said, Well, if you want a cup of tea. And a biscuit. Before you head back …
No, no, said the interviewer. We best get back. We best get off. But thank you, Bill. Thank you again. And to your wife, too.
Bill nodded again. And Bill shook hands with the interviewer. And with the cameraman and the sound man. And Bill said, Well, you boys have a safe journey back now …
Thank you, Bill.
In the sunshine. In the street. With cars passing and with dogs barking. Bill walked back to his gate. Bill walked back up the drive. Bill opened his front door. Bill went back into the house. Bill closed the front door. Bill went back up the stairs. Bill went back into the bedroom. Bill went back over to the bed. Bill took off his jacket. The freshly cleaned grey jacket. Bill picked up the coat hanger from the bed. Bill hung the jacket back on the hanger. Bill went back over to the wardrobe. Bill opened the wardrobe door. Bill hung the jacket back inside the wardrobe. Bill stepped back from the wardrobe. Bill looked at the mirror on the back of the wardrobe door. Bill stared at the mirror on the back of the wardrobe door. Into the mirror on the back of the wardrobe door. The man in the mirror on the back of the wardrobe door. In his red shirt. The collar too big. Bill looked at the man. Bill stared at the man. The man shaking his head. Fighting back tears, struggling to breathe. And Bill said, I have not written anything derogatory about anyone. I have just stated facts. My book is ninety-nine per cent about people and one per cent of criticism. And people have dived in to talk about that one per cent. But that one per cent is fair comment. About fact, about what has happened.