Alexandre: Where are the other members of Icarai Underwater Fishing Club?
Amilar: We were five. Almiro Barauna passed away, Mauro Andrade [employee at the Bank of London], Aloisio Araujo, and Jose Viegas passed away too. I'm the only one remaining.
Alexandre: How about Farias de Azevedo?
Amilar: Yes… the photographer. He worked for Jornal do Brasil. He passed away too.
Alexandre: And where are the negatives today?
Amilar: I don't know! Barauna is dead and I don't know what happened with them. [Note: It is known today that Barauna's widow is in possession of the negatives of pictures obtained by him.]
Alexandre: Did you see them on board?
Amilar: Yes, I have the pictures here with me, the positives.
Alexandre: Skeptics ask how could you see the shape of the UFO in the negatives after the development on board, once it was very tiny in that negative. Amilar: I'll tell you one thing, I didn't see it. The negative was held by the Brazilian Navy.
Alexandre: Reports from that time say that Barauna showed the negatives to all military as soon as he left the development chamber.
Amilar: But I wasn't there at the moment of the development of the pictures. I was at the quarter deck. That was in 1958, I was the president of Icarai Underwater Fishing Club, now I'm 82. I don't have further details to give. What I saw was only a bright object which showed a grayish light when stopped.
Alexandre: So it changed colors?
Amilar: Yes, it did. It was bright when I saw it beside Desejado Peak. After that he was hovering over the island and got brighter then went away to disappear on the horizon.
Alexandre: Which color was it when it came from the sea?
Amilar: When I saw the object it was already beside Desejado Peak. When I was called, it was already there. When hovering it increased speed and brightness and went away until it disappear at the sea. This is my observation. I saw a bright object without any details in surface, no more than this.
Alexandre: Did it show any rotation movement?
Amilar: No, I saw just a gray object which turned bright then went away slowly then increased speed until it disappear on the horizon of the sea.
Alexandre: When it turned bright, what color it had?
Amilar: It was something like a fluorescent light. The object was gray, but I didn't see any details on the surface. As it became brighter, it started to move slowly. After that, the light got brighter and it went over the island until disappear. That was my observation. I didn't see when it arrived at the Peak.
Alexandre: Did the ship radar spot any UFO before the sighting? Amilar: I don't know about this. I have no idea.
Alexandre: Were you called by the Navy to testify?
Amilar: No, I was called only once by a reporter from O Globo newspaper.
Alexandre: So you have never told this story in other places?
Amilar: No, I try to avoid it. I went to the bank to work and people use to laugh at me, they used to toss a coin saying it was a flying saucer. I avoided the subject because of this.
Alexandre: What do you think about the criticism over Barauna when even friends say he did some photographic tricks to mock a UFO?
Amilar: This is because Barauna was always a very capable photographer. He pictured everything! An article says that he pictured the Rio de Janeiro Fleet. [Note: Published in Mundo Ilustrado magazine, in 1954, before the sighting at the island]. But what made me believe even more is the fact that the negatives were taken from the camera on board. He didn't touch anything. The negatives were impounded by the Navy.
Alexandre: Some current criticism say that Barauna was together with Jose Viegas at the moment of the development of the pictures and they might have arranged some fraud at the occasion.
Amilar: I believe that the pictures were developed in the presence of authorities of the ship together with them. It was not the case of Barauna and Viegas developing the pictures without anyone else awareness.
Alexandre: But reports from that time say that the military stayed outside the chamber waiting for the development of the pictures. Captain Bacellar was outside waiting for the development.
Amilar: Well, I don't know about that because at that moment I was at the quarter deck. I can not guarantee anything.
Alexandre: Another remark says that one of the pictures show the object in an inverted position compared to others. The second picture showing the object over Crista do Galo Mount would be similar to the first picture when the UFO was still arriving at the island, however, this second picture shows the UFO in an inverted position compared to the first one.
Amilar: I am not an expert, I have nothing to say.
Alexandre: Such remark says that Barauna would have created a fraud. In summary, Barauna would have inverted and manipulated the object in that picture…
Amilar: It could be, but that object was really in the sky. I can assure that because I saw it and I'm saying that I'm sure!
Alexandre: What do you mean with "it could be"? Do you mean he could have played any tricks?
Amilar: No, I don't know! I don't know if he played some kind of trick as you say, what I'm saying is that the object was really in the sky. If he did anything it was from what was seen in the sky. But as everyone else are dead, I'm the only one to tell the story and I'm telling what I saw. I have no doubt that what I saw was not any illusion.
Alexandre: OK! I'm asking you about this because the possibility of a fraud was very much commented even among photographers that were his friends at that time.
Amilar: I have never taken part in UFO subjects, but it was not that I am a skeptic. My wife, for example, believes in UFOs. I saw a very strange object with her in Niteroi, but I'm not going to say that it was a flying saucer, I can only say that was an unidentified flying object. I don't like to talk about it, but since you called me I'm being kind to tell you what I saw. I've already told what I saw, an object did appear in the sky. Barauna was a photographer and had a collection of cameras. Maybe he even got some prize taking pictures of the object, who knows? You might have testimonials of people saying he mocked the pictures, etc, but even authorities sent the negatives for analysis at the Cruzeiro do Sul Air Photogrametrics Service and the conclusion was that they "could not say that was a hoax". So, it could have been a fraud, but it could be such a well done… But the object was really in the sky, nobody can deny it. I saw that, then went to my cabin because it is very annoying having people asking about that, I never liked it. I have no interest in discussing if there was a fraud or not. I'm just saying that this was my observation, I saw the object and I will never deny it!
[At this point the interview with Amilar is over and he passes the phone on to his wife who didn't want to tell her name, so that she could tell us the sighting of a USO in the municipality of Niteroi (Amilar was there too). Below is the wife's brief testimonial.]
Alexandre: This other sighting happened after of before the sighting at Trindade Island?
Amilar's Wife (AW): It was much after that, I believe it was in 1963. I had never thought about that before, never had any interest.
Alexandre: Did you take any pictures?
AW: No.
Alexandre: And how did it happen?
AW: I was in a village, in Niteroi, and as in that time there weren't many buildings, we could observe a lot. It was around 5:30-6:00 PM in a place with many people and, strangely enough, I didn't see anyone commenting after that. The object that I was had lights around it like a car lantern, but it has many colors with no colors in the middle of it. I saw it together with Amilar, with my daughter and an aunt of mine. Everyone saw it at the same time.