JIRO
Yes, Sotatsu went with him on many occasions.
INT.
Did that divide the two of you? Did you feel that you were in some kind of competition for your father’s esteem?
JIRO
No, not at all. I have heard of families like that, certainly, but …
(Laughs.)
JIRO
… not in the least. If anything it was always Sotatsu and me together against the rest of them.
INT.
You two had a special trick you would do, right? At school?
JIRO
Yes, sometimes Sotatsu would throw a stone through the window of my classroom. Then the teacher would go off trying to find who had done it and the class would end early. I also did this for his class.
INT.
But how did you manage to not be in school at that time?
JIRO
I would be using the toilet. Or, I would say so.
INT.
And was he ever caught doing this?
JIRO
He wasn’t. I did get caught, though, several times. As a matter of fact, I don’t think I ever got away with it. The schoolteachers were always suspicious of me, I don’t know why.
INT.
Do your own children take after you in that respect?
JIRO
How do you mean?
INT.
Well, that one seems to be trying to run away with my hat.
JIRO
Yes, nothing is safe around here.
Interview 13 (Brother)
[Int. note. Shortly after that, I asked him about his father’s reaction when he discovered that Jiro was still visiting Sotatsu. He had told me earlier that his father had been angry, but he hadn’t gone into detail. Later, when I asked again, he was more forthcoming.]
INT.
How did it come about that your father learned you were visiting Sotatsu?
JIRO
There was a photograph, an unfortunate photograph that was published in the newspaper, a photograph of the prison. Some photographer had visited there to take photographs of various inmates, my brother included. He passed me at the prison entrance and noticed my resemblance to Sotatsu. I tried to avoid it, but he took my photograph and sold it to the newspaper. He sold a photograph of me visiting my brother for money, and that photograph was seen by my father. He demanded that I come to see him. I did so. He was furious. He said that a decision had been made and we would all stand by it. He said that some of us were trying to continue to live, to continue with our lives, and that I wasn’t making anything easier for anyone. I replied that, in fact, I was. I was making things easier for myself and for my brother, Sotatsu. I told him that I didn’t believe Sotatsu had done anything wrong. I said I didn’t like any of it from the beginning to the end. He said that I was still stupid, and had always been so. That whether Sotatsu had done something or not was not the point and never had been. He said that you had a chance with each life, each person’s life, that there was a chance to get along without drawing the wrong kind of attention to yourself. That if you did, it was never good, it always ended badly, and the facts of the matter were nothing, were no good. He said I had a liar’s respect for the truth, which is too much respect.
INT.
And that’s when he …
JIRO
He told me he didn’t want to see me again.
INT.
But he went back on that.
JIRO
He did. Later that same year he went back on it. But he was so changed then that it didn’t matter. He was a different person. As he is now. You can see, can’t you? There’s no satisfaction to be had from the person you met.
INT.
…
JIRO
Whether you will say so or not, you can see what a shell he is.
(Tape clicks off.)
Interview 14 (Watanabe Garo)
The First Time He Spoke with Oda Sotatsu
[Int. note. This was the interview at the ramen house, and it was the interview to which Garo brought the photograph I showed some pages back. He had the photograph in a manila envelope along with other things that he did not show me. I was very curious about what else was in the manila envelope, but if it was perhaps necessary for me to have won his trust further in order to have seen it, then in that case I failed to do what was necessary. I did not learn of the other contents. The photograph that he did give me, that of Jito Joo in a kimono, had writing on the back. The writing read, On a lake, they float, but they do not see the lake. They only see what’s above, and only in the day, and only when the sun is not too bright. I tried to discover the provenance of those lines but was unable to, until speaking to Jito Joo herself. For now, however, I was sitting opposite Watanabe Garo in the ramen house, my tape-device dwarfed by two enormous bowls of ramen.]
INT.
I am very curious, of course, to hear anything you might have to say about Oda Sotatsu, but most of all I’m curious to hear about the times when he spoke to you. Do you remember which was the first time?
GARO
Do you think I could forget a man like that?
INT.
So, he made a powerful impression, visually?
GARO
No, no, not at all. In fact, that was the thing that was most fascinating. When you were in a room with him it was like you were alone. He had the least presence of anyone I have ever met. It wasn’t just that he was quiet. Of course he was, that was his thing, no? But also, he simply appeared to be elsewhere.
INT.
And where do you think that was?
GARO
Some of the guys used to say they would wring it out of him. There were those who didn’t like him, I guess. We were divided along those lines. The newer guys didn’t like him. The older ones just valued behavior above everything.
INT.
So, the older ones liked him?
GARO
Yes, yes, we liked him.
INT.
And the first time you spoke to him, what circumstance was that under?
GARO
It was about a shogi set.
INT.
A shogi set?
GARO
Most of the prisoners awaiting execution, or appealing it while waiting, they get a shogi set.
INT.
So, they play with each other? Or with the guards?
GARO
They do not play. Not with each other, and not with the guards. They mostly just move the pieces around. Some of them like to act like they are playing games by themselves, but I don’t think they really do. I think they just move the pieces to pass the time.
INT.
But, presumably some of them do know the game and can play by themselves.