Marlene laughed. "On the contrary. It's a fairly successful way to find a victim. Perhaps not here in France, but certainly in England and America. I always put a whip right on the top of each bag, and I'm very happy if they do open anything. I have to be careful in Munich, but I'm not ashamed of being a sadist and so I'm not ashamed of my whips being seen- outside Munich. And if a customs officer is at all masochistic he'll try to make a date with me as soon as he opens my bags."
"Good heavens! Will he really?"
"If he's a masochist, he will."
"And you say it happens in England?"
"And America, and Scandinavia. Yes, it happens quite frequently."
Erika thought of the back and bottom and legs of Carl Gunther, as she had seen them the previous night. "But, surely, if one becomes too brutal-"
Marlene seemed to read her thoughts. "One doesn't usually whip anyone quite as much as we whipped Gunther last night, you know. We can't-unless he's under our thumb for some reason or other. If he becomes our victim voluntarily, because he's a masochist, we have to deal less brutally with him."
"What a pity! It's nice to be able to let go. I enjoyed myself last night."
"Oh, we get our pleasure all right, don't you worry. We always give him a good deal more than he wants, but-well, there has to be a limit."
"How can you give him more than he wants? Won't he stop you?"
"Not usually. But if there's a danger that he may, we simply tie him up and gag him."
"But-" Erika frowned. "But what happens if he won't allow himself to be tied up and gagged?"
Marlene took out her cigarette case and offered it. "You have a great deal to learn, my dear. If a man is a masochist, he usually-ninety-nine times out of a hundred-wants to be tied and gagged. He wants to feel helpless. He wants to feel that he is in the power of a woman-that she can do whatever she likes with him. There are different degrees of masochism, of course-just as there are different degrees of sadism. Some men are fully masochistic, both physically and mentally, and this type will accept practically anything that you want do to them. They'll submit to the most appalling tortures, and get a thrill in the midst of even the most terrible pain. But they're rather rare. About three or four in every hundred, I should say.
But-"
"In every hundred of masochistic men, or ordinary men?"
"Oh, masochistic men, of course. And-
"I'm sorry to keep on interrupting," said Erika, humbly but excitedly. "But how many men would you say are masochistic? I mean out of every hundred ordinary men, how many have any masochism at all?"
Marlene laughed. "We're getting into difficult mathematics now. It depends on nationality. Here in France probably not more than about one in a hundred. In England, America and Scandinavia-and a good many other countries, I should say, but I don't know from personal experience-anything up to twenty."
"Twenty! Twenty per cent! Is it possible?" "Oh, yes, certainly. In Germany it's even more than that."
Erika was silent for a moment. "Good heavens," she said softly. "Do go on, please. You were saying that they're rather rare-those that'll submit to whatever you want to do to them."
Marlene drew on her cigarette. "Most of the others are more masochistic in their minds than in their bodies. They like a little pain, of course-but they don't like too much. But before the pain comes they like to imagine the most awful things being done to them. And after it's all over they get a terrific thrill remembering it. While it's actually happening they don't usually like it. But it's too late. It's our turn now to get our own pleasure. We've given them theirs with all the preliminaries they like so much-the threats, perhaps the tying-up and gagging-but now they have to take what's coming to them, and usually it's quite a lot. I say there has to be a limit, but nevertheless they have to take a good deal of pain."
"I see," said Erika, thoughtfully. She caught a glimpse of the Eiffel Tower as the taxi turned a corner but was too interested in what Marlene was saying to make the usual exclamation. "But then that's that, I suppose. They're no longer masochistic after what you do to them?"
Marlene laughed again. "On the contrary. As soon as the actual physical pain is finished and behind them, the mental excitement starts all over again. It's greater now, because they can think of what we did to them. They think of it and they dream of it and they wallow in it. And so, when we're ready to do it again to them, they don't offer any resistance at all. Their mental excitement is so strong that they forget the hell of the thing itself, and they long for the whole thing to happen again."
Erika nodded her head silently. She was trying very hard not to show her own excitement. Marlene was talking as though these matters were ordinary everyday occurrences. The vague rumours about women of her class had not been exaggerations, Erika realised. She hugged herself, in her corner of the taxi, in delighted anticipation of what the future held in store for her. She had a good deal more sadism in her than she had realised. As she had told Marlene the night before, she had often thought it would be extremely pleasant to whip a man before love-making but she had never seriously considered the possibility of actually doing it. Now, things had changed; her life, it seemed, had changed. In a little while they would be in the centre of Paris, and a telephone call would be made, Marlene told her, to a masochistic Englishman. And she too was going to be allowed to whip this Englishman. She hugged herself again, and felt a feverish surge of sexual, sadistic longing spread through her loins.
"This Englishman," she said. "Is he one of the three per cent who will accept anything and everything?"
"No, he's not." Marlene smiled. "You're looking forward to tonight, I can see."
"Oh, yes. Yes, yes. I'm looking forward to it terribly."
"Good. It'll be a good illustration of what I've been saying, too. He is a terrific masochist, mentally. But he can't stand much pain when the time comes."
"And you give him a lot?"
"Oh yes, quite a lot. Not so much as I give Gunther, of course-but quite a lot, all the same."
"And he always comes back for more?"
"Yes, always. He comes like lightning, as soon as I ring him. You'll see, when we get to the hotel. He'll be with us within twenty minutes. And if you look at his trousers as he comes into the room you'll see he has an erection."
"Does the same thing happen with Gunther?"
"No, it doesn't. He's not a masochist at all. The whole thing is sheer terror for him."
"That must make it more exciting for you, then."
Marlene smiled. "Yes, it does. And you have the right ideas, I can see. It's a pity you've wasted so much time."
"Thanks to you, I'm going to make up for it," said Erika simply. "Do tell me, does sex come into it too, with you? I mean love-making? Or do you only whip them?"
"Goodness, no! Sex most certainly comes into it. Except if I whip them too hard, and they become impotent. But that doesn't happen very often. It seems to have the opposite effect. After a whipping a man is usually ten times more randy. That's why doctors often tell old men to get themselves whipped if they want to regain virility in their old age."
"Yes, I've heard that, but I didn't know whether to believe it or not."
"It's true enough. It has to be inferior flagellation of course."
Erika stared for a moment. "Inferior flagellation? What's that?"
Marlene patted her knee. "I forgot that you're still at the beginning of things. Inferior and superior flagellation are the names of the two basic types of whipping. The first can be pleasant-even for the victim, and the second is pure torture-except for the three per cent we spoke of just now. In inferior flagellation you whip only the buttocks and the upper part of the back of the legs. Of course you let yourself go and really whip! And you go on as long as you have strength-a thousand lashes, if you can. It's the places that you whip that makes it inferior, not the force or the time or the number of lashes. In superior flagellation you whip everywhere else-the back, the shoulders, the face sometimes, the chest-and particularly the nipples, the stomach, the knees-front and back, the soles of the feet, and, if you want to be really cruel, the rod and the balls."