— And that’s what he tried to do?
— He was moving around. And for a while, it was within a certain perimeter. But when he got closer, we were forced to act.
— He got closer?
— He made a move toward us. He lunged.
— That’s when you fired your gun?
— Yes. I did and the rest of the team did.
— How many bullets did the autopsy reveal had been fired into him?
— Three.
— But weren’t you all shooting at him?
— No, only three of us fired our weapons.
— And did the three bullets stop him?
— Yes. He dropped to the ground.
— And then what?
— We approached him with caution, and when we saw that he had dropped the knife, we called the ambulance.
— And when did you know you’d killed him?
— A few hours later. We were at the hospital.
— You waited there at the hospital?
— Yes I did. There were at least six officers there. We did not want the young man to die.
— But you shot him.
— We shot him to subdue him.
— How close do you think he got to you?
— How do you mean?
— When he was stepping toward you, was he running?
— He moved very quickly.
— Was he running?
— He had begun to run, yes.
— And how far did he move toward you?
— We measured it at eight feet.
— Okay. So you said you had been twenty-five feet away from him. When you shot him, if he’d moved eight feet toward you, he was still seventeen feet away from you. Is that right?
— Yes.
— Okay, wait. Let me go over here. About as far away as I am from you now. Is this the distance?
— Yes. About.
— So he died about seventeen feet from you.
— Yes.
— How many times did you personally shoot him?
— Shoot or hit?
— Both.
— I shot three times and hit him once.
— Where did you hit him?
— Once in the neck.
— Is that where you were aiming?
— I was aiming at a figure moving quickly toward me. We’re taught to aim into the largest part of the target. And that’s the torso.
— You wanted to stop his forward motion.
— Yes.
— And you did stop it.
— Yes. Listen, I didn’t enjoy it. I have never fired my weapon since that night. I’m not some cowboy. I know it doesn’t diminish your pain, but it was traumatic for me, too. I would have preferred any other outcome.
— That’s fine. But here’s the thing: it seems like there were other possible outcomes. I just never understood the concept, the logistics of all this. There are twelve heavily armed men, and you’re surrounding this small man with a knife. He has no criminal record, and the two things you know he’s done wrong that night are he’s danced on some tables at Denny’s and pushed his mom against a wall. Then a couple hours later he’s dead in his own backyard. This kind of thing happens once a week.
— Here it does?
— Somewhere it does. Last week they shot a guy in a wheelchair.
— An armed man threatens a group of police officers, there will be bad outcomes.
— The wheelchair guy had a length of pipe. Why not just leave him alone? With Don, you removed the mom from the house. Why not just let him sit around in the basement?
— Let an armed man accused of assault roam free?
— He’s in his basement. He’s not roaming anywhere.
— He was armed and probably psychotic. We have to presume he’s dangerous.
— But you didn’t really think he was dangerous.
— Of course we did.
— But you didn’t. You worked in Marview. This is some confused young man with a steak knife. He had a college degree, no prior record.
— Lee Harvey Oswald didn’t have a record, either.
— Good. Good one. But really, when the SWAT team showed up, did you ever think, Well, maybe this is a bit much for one guy in a basement?
— No. We have to prepare for the worst.
— Well, that’s true in a way, isn’t it? You guys prepare for the worst, even in Marview. Doesn’t that seem insane? A bunch of little towns by the ocean have a SWAT team? In case we get attacked by some army of sea lions?
— We have a fire department, too, even when there hasn’t been a fatal fire in twenty-two years.
— But firemen don’t have guns. You know how many SWAT teams there are in the country now? Of course you don’t. Fifty thousand. Every fucking suburb has a SWAT team. And it’s not because there’s been some sudden surge of hostage situations in Westchester and Orange County. It’s because you fuckers like to get dressed up.
— That is incorrect.
— You love it. That’s why you got into the line of work in the first place. The gear. The fucking Batman utility belt.
— You have no idea what you’re talking about.
— I have every idea what I’m talking about because you killed my friend. Don’t you ever say I don’t know what the fuck I’m talking about. I know everything. I’m the moral man here. I’m the man of principle.
—
— You know I’m the moral man here.
—
— Tell me you understand that.
— I understand that you want me to believe it.
— You better believe it. Motherfucker, you better believe it. You’re the one who fucked up. You have blood on your hands. You’re soaked in the blood of an innocent. Do you realize that?
— It was an unfortunate incident.
— See, just those words indicate no respect for human life. An incident ends a human life? No, that’s an apocalypse. The death of a young person for no reason is an apocalypse. It’s not an incident. Don was not an incident. You understand that? Is a person an incident?
— No.
— Was my friend an incident?
— No.
— Did you participate in the apocalypse that ended my friend?
—
— Don’t tempt me.
— Yes.
— And there was no other way to subdue him? A taser? Pepper spray? A big net? Rubber bullets? Think for a second.
— In hindsight, there might have been a different solution. But he was armed and seemed about to do something terrible. This is how it usually happens. A guy seems harmless and then has a night where things go down a rabbit hole and people get killed. Every murderer has to start somewhere, and we were determined to stop him from hurting anyone.
— Tell me this, though: the guy’s in the basement. Do you think, if you had simply left him there at the house, someone would have been hurt? I mean, instead of the standoff, with you demanding him to come out and him getting increasingly agitated, what if you had just left? Take the mom, leave the house, leave him alone. What do you think would have happened?
— He could have gotten right back into a car and he could have done something far worse than he already had.
— But you could have followed him. You could follow him around all night.
— And then we have a high-speed chase.
— You really think this was destined for some disastrous result?
— He was in a fugue state. I think his behavior was getting increasingly bizarre and dangerous.
— So you’re all standing around him, the small man with a steak knife. And you said he came toward you. I understand the need to protect yourself. But why shoot him in the head?
— I did not aim for his head.
— One of your colleagues did.
— My supposition is that that officer was aiming for his torso, too.
— But why not just shoot him in the leg?
— We’re trained to stop the aggressor and remove the threat. The best way to do that is to shoot at the torso. The torso is the largest target, and shooting there is the best chance to stop his forward movement.